This week’s guest is Dr. Kate Lister – ‘a history sleuth with a passion for uncovering the wild tales of the past’ who happens to be a fellow perfume-lover. From Kate’s early experiments with perfumes she and her peers dabbed and dabbled with in their youth, through to expressing her personality, and finding fragrances she’s now fallen madly in love with; of course, our conversations took an historical turn.
Among the discussions: what people in the past actually smelled like (did they stink, as many people assume?), the cultural controls over what women were supposed to smell of, why Kate and Suzy have a deep longing to smell like forest witches, and a disturbing revelation of how and why Lysol was first marketed to women…
You might know Kate best from her bestselling books, ‘A Curious History of Sex’ and ‘Harlots, Whores, and Hackabouts: A History of Sex for Sale,’ where she spills the tea on our ancestors’ sex lives.
When she’s not ‘deep-diving into historical hanky-panky’, Kate hosts the award-winning History Hit podcast, Betwixt the Sheets, where she and her guests (including an episode with Suzy on historical fragrances) ‘time-travel through the sauciest and most scandalous stories in history.’
But there’s something else that Kate’s become passionate about – other than her eternal quest for the best red lipstick in the world – which makes us love her even more... In this episode we delve deeper into Kate’s burgeoning olfactory obsession, which she fully admits was Suzy’s fault, as Kate purchased the perfumes Suzy spoke about when she was a Betwixt guest – and as we all know, it’s a slippery scented slope from there.
We think you’ll agree that Kate was an utterly fascinating guest, and we’re determined to get her back for a Part Two! (Once she’s tried even more of the fragrance recommendations Suzy is going to send her. Sorry in advance, Kate...)
In this episode:
Dr Kate Lister’s Fragrance List
‘Our Dewberry Perfume Oil is the ultimate, pocket-sized nostalgia fix.
Dab it onto pulse points for a long-lasting hit of juicy dewberry, fresh green leaves, soft florals, and a warm base of cedarwood and musk. Compact and travel-friendly, it’s the retro classic reimagined for today.
Top notes: dewberry, green leaves, eucalpytus
Heart notes: jasmine, freesia, white lily
Base notes: cedarwood, soft musk.’
‘CK Be Unisex Eau de Toilette is an uplifting fragrance inspired by the concept of self-expression. With its herbaceous yet floral aroma, it’s designed for those who embrace diversity and authenticity, transcending gender norms. CK Be is perfect for both casual and evening wear, offering a versatile aroma suitable for any occasion, day and night.
THE SCENT
This modern unisex Eau de Toilette opens with a vibrant burst of Bergamot and Mandarin, immediately invigorating the senses with its refreshing citrus accord. As the aromas settle, the delicate yet succulent undertones of juicy Peach, soft Lavender and Magnolia intertwine, adding a touch of sweetness and floral femininity to this unisex fragrance. But it's the spicy allure of Juniper Berries and the comforting warmth of Tonka Bean that truly anchor this scent, imparting depth and complexity. Together, they create a lingering trail that is both captivating and comforting.’
Gap Grass (the original, discontinued)
Gap Heaven (the original, discontinued)
‘Forest opens bright and almost cool: pine needles and cypress on fresh air. Then black pepper and a thread of incense lead you onto the forest floor, with rich earth and grass underfoot.
Who it's for: Lovers of pine, cedar and fresh, aromatic woods who want an easy everyday green.
Who it isn't for: Anyone hunting for heavy sweetness or a loud evening projector. Forest is clean and quietly woody.
‘Beneath the fruity and herbaceous rays of Roman Chamomile, the mineral and zesty crackle of Frankincense CO2 Extract meets the woody, almost salty freshness of Schinus Molle, together evoking the burning wood of the Frankincense Tree and its resin passively exuding its resinous aromas. Led by a vibrant and sensual Atlas Cedar, Saffron unfolds its richness between leather and tobacco, its roundness and character, effusions of alderman's pepper warmed on the eugenolated embers of Chili Pepper CO2 Extract.
Frankincense and Saffron, the divine and the profane, the Abrahamic and the Babylonian, each enriches its song, one with the mystical, ecstatic, mystagogical darkness of Oud and the balsamic warmth of Cistus; The other, through overdosed and decadent accents of White Cocoa and Vanilla, regressive, impious, and gourmand. Interlacing of sweet and cold smoke; a path of light and a path of pleasures; resins of gods and princes: King Incense gathers the tales of a Humanity never short of hope.’
‘Capturing the sexual revolution in olfactive form, 1969 eau de parfum by Histoires de Parfums is a wildly addictive gourmand signature, accented with delectable fruits and spices.
Harnessing the carnal sensuality of a bunch of spices, this mystifying blend opens with fruity top notes, enhancing the sweetness of a bouquet of rose and white flowers at the heart, and is grounded with white musk and chocolate for gourmand trail tinted with eroticism.’
Wales Perfumery Celtic Perfume Discovery Set
‘The Celts Celtic Perfume Discovery Set: five tribes, five stories, one set
The Celts perfume collection is probably my most ambitious work to date. Each fragrance is built around a specific ancient Celtic tribe: their landscape, their culture, their spirit. The five together span the ancient Celtic world from the warrior territories of Wales to the honeyed strongholds of Brittany.
This 2ml Celtic perfume discovery set lets you experience all five properly before deciding which speaks to you. It also gives you a chance to compare the Celt Parfum directly against the four EDPs; higher concentration, deeper sillage, longer wear. If you’ve never explored the difference between an Eau de Parfum and a Parfum, this is a beautiful way to feel it on your own skin.
CELT PARFUM: Dark, honeyed, and powerful. The enduring heart of Brittany's Celtic stronghold, built around tobacco absolute, mead, and standing stones.
Heart notes: mead, honey, and wild resins
Base notes: amber, tobacco absolute, leather, wool, and ebony
VOTADINI EAU DE PARFUM: Earthy, seductive, and untamed. Edinburgh's ancient tribe captured through red wine, wild heather, and the raw spirit of Scotland.
Heart notes: wine accord, red berries, and earthenware
Base notes: plaid, hay, cypriol, cistus absolute, leather, and patchouli
IVERNIEAU DE PARFUM: Airy, ozonic, and metallic. The wild, untamed beauty of Ireland's first Celts, forged in ice, metal, and stone.
Top notes: snow, ice, air, and juniper
Heart notes: hot metal, iron, and rose absolute
Base notes: damp stone, Canadian spruce, moss, timber, and wild plants
SILURES EAU DE PARFUM: Rich, gourmand, and resinous. The fierce warrior spirit of Wales, celebrating feasts, foraged fruits, and ancient traditions.
Heart notes: osmanthus, blackberries, and Beltane cake
Base notes: guaiacwood, balsamic accord, oak, vanilla, and foraged nuts
CORNOVII EAU DE PARFUM: Bright, sparkling, and golden. Cornwall's ancient Mediterranean trade and was brought to life through olive, spa water, and precious imports.
Top notes: pomelo, bergamot, lemon, and spa water accord
Heart notes: olive fruit absolute, bay leaf, gold accord, and mineral accord
Base notes: frankincense
‘Imagine sitting in solitude on the rugged, wide plains of the American West, firelight on your face, indigo-blue night skies above. There is nothing around save for the soft, desert wind. You. Are. Free.
From this defining vision was born SANTAL 33: a perfume that touches the vast and wild universality of this dream... that intoxicates... It combines a mix of cardamom and notes of iris and violet, which crackle in the formula. Added to this smoking wood alloy (Australian sandalwood, cedarwood) are some spicy, leathery, musky notes, giving this perfume its signature and addictive comforting scent.
Here is, in a few words, what SANTAL 33 is... An open fire... The soft drift of smoke... Where sensuality rises after the light has gone.’
‘"Even if one just tastes it, at once arouses a humour throughout the body and has a very healthy aroma” - Pedanius Dioscorides, around year 70 BC
Silphium (probably of the genus Ferula) was a plant that grew in the area of Cyrene, present day Libya, and was widely renowned as a spice, medicinal herb and perfume ingredient throughout the empires of the classical antiquity. It was praised by Greek philosophers and writers, as well as Roman emperors and cookbook authors.
There were many attempts to cultivate Silphium, but they inevitably failed. It would only grow wild in a limited area of the north African coast. This, in combination with its qualities as seasoning and medicine made Silphium the most valuable spice in the world, outshining both saffron and cinnamon. The demand for Silphium eventually became so overwhelming that it was harvested to extinction, and the taste and smell of the once greatest spice in the world were lost in time.
Our rendition of this historical plant is created by researching surviving assumed relatives of Silphium, using aromachemicals (the molecular building blocks of scents) to create an accord that we feel represents what descriptions remains. This is set against a background of ancient incense, woods and leather.’
Suzy suggested:
Andrea Maack Coven (and has a whole list of other suggestions to send Kate)
Kate’s favourite novel: Perfume: Story of a Murderer by Patrick Süskind
Suzy also suggested Kate read Smells: A Culturial History of Odours in Early Modern Times by Robert Muchembled
And Suzy also insisted that Kate (and anyone equally fascinated by the science and history of our sense of smell) attend next year’s IFRA Fragrance Forum, which you can find out more about in a forthcoming blog feature on this website, so watch this space!
In the meantime, you can watch videos of previous IFRA lectures on their website: ifrauk.org
Want to get in touch with feedback or prescription questions for Suzy & Nicola? Message via a DM @onthescentpodcast and they’ll try to get back to you or answer on the show!
